00:01:54.033,00:01:57.033 Sarah Gibson: I encourage everyone to turn on their cameras if they are willing to promote conversation 00:08:11.222,00:08:14.222 Heather Elliott: The magnetic field drapping in front of a fast CME looks like a rotation. 00:09:45.837,00:09:48.837 Anna Malanushenko: Heather, it might have been it! BTW you were the one who taught me to look at the chirality inside vs in the outside ^_^ 00:10:42.036,00:10:45.036 Christian Moestl: https://helioforecast.space/icmecat 00:10:58.965,00:11:01.965 Christian Moestl: https://helioforecast.space/lineups 00:11:45.424,00:11:48.424 Samuel Badman: https://github.com/STBadman/ParkerSolarWind <- lightweight python code for making Parker solar wind solutions 00:13:01.845,00:13:04.845 Yeimy Rivera: Here is the Solar Orbiter WG link: https://sites.google.com/view/solo-wg/?pli=1 00:13:17.656,00:13:20.656 Nicki Viall: Thanks Yeimy! 00:13:39.510,00:13:42.510 Heather Elliott: It looks like Goddard has the JUICE trajectory for 2023 105 - 2031 201 on the "Heliocentric Trajectories for Selected Spacecraft, Planets, and Comets" site. https://omniweb.gsfc.nasa.gov/coho/helios/heli.html. You can download the data in a text file there. 00:14:57.607,00:15:00.607 Yeimy Rivera: Just FYI, the next Solar Orbiter working group (this Thursday) is for our group, Solar wind origins and connection science -- I can send anyone a link if interested 00:15:56.472,00:15:59.472 Christian Moestl: heres the link to all Solar Orbiter working groups: https://sites.google.com/view/solo-wg/working-groups?authuser=0 00:18:32.086,00:18:35.086 Sarah Gibson: https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/1538-4357/aba26b 00:18:42.110,00:18:45.110 Sarah Gibson: Paper by Noe Lugaz on this topic 00:19:07.339,00:19:10.339 Sarah Gibson: also this: https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/1538-4357/acd847 00:19:30.825,00:19:33.825 Sarah Gibson: Scolini et al paper https://www.aanda.org/articles/aa/pdf/2019/06/aa35053-19.pdf 00:19:41.642,00:19:44.642 Craig DeForest: Thanks, Sarah! That Lugaz paper is pretty great. 00:19:55.003,00:19:58.003 Craig DeForest: I'm not as familiar with the Scolini, but I'll have a read now. 00:20:01.770,00:20:04.770 Craig DeForest: "now" - soon 00:24:29.803,00:24:32.803 Craig DeForest: Dipankar: the transition from self-similar to lateral expansion is a really interesting topic. 00:24:59.662,00:25:02.662 Olga Panasenco: chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://arxiv.org/pdf/1211.1376.pdf 00:25:16.730,00:25:19.730 Olga Panasenco: Fig 5 and 7 in this paper 00:26:01.202,00:26:04.202 Samuel Badman: To Sam W: how much clearer is the in situ-magnetic connection with Q vs just expansion factor? 00:27:28.922,00:27:31.922 Craig DeForest: Sam B: I'm very interested in what "textural" (spatiotemporal structure) signs there might be for these observables -- both squashing factor and acceleration/release mechanism. 00:28:06.044,00:28:09.044 Craig DeForest: e.g. is there some proxy we can extract from the PUNCH data that correlates to the squashing factor or to the FIP measurements that Yeimy discussed. 00:29:20.458,00:29:23.458 Samantha Wallace: @Sam B. I am typing out a response but probably best answered verbally. 00:29:54.213,00:29:57.213 Vanessa Polito: Hi all, I am IRIS deputy PI. We are very interested in coordinating and contribute to the planned campaigns! 00:30:41.838,00:30:44.838 Olivier Witasse: I need to disconnect, sorry. Thanks for the invit; we keep in touch. 00:31:04.677,00:31:07.677 Samantha Wallace: Q and expansion factor at times are correlated, but fundamentally they are different calculations. expansion factor is calculated along one field line, and the squashing factor (Q) represents the divergence of the field between neighboring 00:31:23.111,00:31:26.111 Heather Elliott: Thanks Olivier. Maybe we can make some plots of the JUICE-Earth quadrature times. 00:31:38.609,00:31:41.609 Samantha Wallace: field lines. (i maxed out the characters in my response... ill save the rest for verbal response for that reason... hah) 00:32:20.776,00:32:23.776 David Webb: Craig, etc There is the question of how best to map PUNCH density data onto, say, synoptic maps, like done with coronagraphs now. But with PUNCH we can extend these mappings out to higher elongations. Such maps show streamers, pseudostreamers, and maybe the S-web structures. 00:33:01.493,00:33:04.493 Anna Malanushenko: Samantha, one can also calculate squashing factor for one field line by integrating a special function along it :) 00:33:48.558,00:33:51.558 Samuel Badman: @Anna - interesting! do you have a reference for this? 00:33:55.029,00:33:58.029 Anna Malanushenko: I do, one moment! 00:34:49.918,00:34:52.918 Samantha Wallace: @anna - i did not know that. Can you send me a paper reference if this has been used in the field? 00:35:27.655,00:35:30.655 Anna Malanushenko: https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2020ApJ...901..147L/abstract 00:35:31.204,00:35:34.204 Anna Malanushenko: see sec 3.2 00:35:53.774,00:35:56.774 Anna Malanushenko: it is a bit tricky to calculate, admittedly :) but still it's a local function that doesn't care if neighbouring field lines diverge madly 00:37:25.005,00:37:28.005 Samantha Wallace: Thank you for sending this. I was unaware! I am mostly familar with Titov 07 and similar methods 00:37:25.225,00:37:28.225 Samuel Badman: supplementary movies : https://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-022-01834-5 00:40:03.612,00:40:06.612 Samantha Wallace: Back to Sam B's comment, we are talking about doing that next with WSA -- deriving the S-web and projecting it onto remote images. I hope by the time we are getting data down from PUNCH that we will have this capability 00:42:47.150,00:42:50.150 Craig DeForest: That is great news, Sam W 00:44:16.902,00:44:19.902 Samuel Badman: i could pull up my movie if tha twould be helpful 00:44:27.601,00:44:30.601 Samantha Wallace: ^ 00:44:28.229,00:44:31.229 Barbara Thompson: I think it would, Sam 00:44:40.392,00:44:43.392 Jaime Landeros: ^ 00:44:41.690,00:44:44.690 Barbara Thompson: (Sam is always more concise than me) 00:44:47.452,00:44:50.452 Matt West: https://middlecorona.com/notthemiddlecorona/VAPOR_output/20230916_Triple.gif 00:44:55.657,00:44:58.657 Samantha Wallace: hahahahahahah deff not true! 00:45:19.098,00:45:22.098 Matt West: Here's a rough reconstruction using STEREO data and the pB/tB technique 00:45:53.192,00:45:56.192 Samantha Wallace: Not sure which sam you were talking to 00:46:31.399,00:46:34.399 Barbara Thompson: I have a good quick animation of L5 vs. Earth Thomson sphere angles if there's time 00:46:41.075,00:46:44.075 Craig DeForest: That would be useful 00:46:56.031,00:46:59.031 Sam Van Kooten: That's really cool, Sam! 00:48:26.015,00:48:29.015 Craig DeForest: (Remember, far from the Sun where the radial gradient is less important than individual features' density, the Thomson surface itself is not that important to imaging -- stuff you see in unpolarized light is sort of maximally spread out in front of or behind the fsurface Sam rendered so well.) 00:51:21.214,00:51:24.214 Dan Seaton: The synthetic data is generated with FORWARD and then folded into the PUNCH FOV 00:51:42.288,00:51:45.288 Barbara Thompson: Very simple illustration of L5 vs. Earth Thomson sphere angles: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1sFovZtXbVbadkkxT7uAf1ZeFU_GhaWRCUWloXQtRqao/ 00:52:09.439,00:52:12.439 Sarah Gibson: FORWARD will also calculate a distance from TS directly -- which is related to the ratio Sam is plotitng but can be directly related to spacecraft orbital position. 00:55:41.076,00:55:44.076 Samuel Badman: ^ Sarah, is there a 1:1 mapping between tB/pB and a distance value? so one could turn that rendering into a 3D deformed surface? 00:56:06.894,00:56:09.894 Sarah Gibson: That's what I am thinking exactly! 00:56:21.426,00:56:24.426 Sarah Gibson: ^Sam B 00:56:31.193,00:56:34.193 Craig DeForest: It's at best double-valued and at worst multivalued (requiring Bernie-like tomography) but well worth rendering in teh front and back solutions. 00:56:43.544,00:56:46.544 Samuel Badman: and then predict in situ intersections and try to falsify? 00:56:48.939,00:56:51.939 Sarah Gibson: oh yeah that's true -- but for CMEs that ambiguity can be removed 00:58:41.210,00:58:44.210 Barbara Thompson: BTW, get your PUNCH gear at the Land's End store!! You can get a nice sweater like @Nicki. https://business.landsend.com/store/heliophysics/ 00:58:58.079,00:59:01.079 Craig DeForest: Sam B: here's the analysis for the compact-feature case: https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/0004-637X/765/1/44/meta 00:59:05.906,00:59:08.906 Sarah Gibson: I mean solar minimum is post-Prime mission, but extensions do happen! 01:01:16.017,01:01:19.017 Samuel Badman: thank you Craig! 01:03:22.381,01:03:25.381 Craig DeForest: No worries. If you want to cut to the chase, you want Equation 12. The ambiguity is resolvable by plausibility of the trajectory -- Figure 6. 01:08:28.795,01:08:31.795 Craig DeForest: Bill's filtering scale from random walks ties back to remote sensing indicators of Q factor 01:09:13.082,01:09:16.082 Craig DeForest: Magnetic field random walks underneath high-Q lateral coordinate transformations will have different spatial signatures in the PUNCH field of view, than magnetic field random walks under better-behaved topologies. 01:09:52.277,01:09:55.277 Craig DeForest: Since the magnetic carpet is basically random-walking all the time, there ought to be observational consequences for us 01:10:00.850,01:10:03.850 Jaime Landeros: Sharing that presentation would be very helpful, @William 01:11:01.509,01:11:04.509 Anna Malanushenko: @William -- if you make a talk on that, please let me know I'll be interested to hear it! 01:12:38.226,01:12:41.226 Olga Panasenco: Ref to Rappazzo paper pls? 01:13:36.774,01:13:39.774 Craig DeForest: My diffusion comment arises from the fact that magnetic random walks on teh surface don't actually follow a diffusion equation -- the magnetic flux budget is more analogous to an exciton field in a 2-D semiconductor film, because the random stepping of field lines is not (in quiet regions) dependent on the prior distirbution of field lines. 01:14:05.989,01:14:08.989 Craig DeForest: You can approximate the behavior with a diffusion equation, but the diffusion "constant" isnt'. 01:16:38.766,01:16:41.766 Craig DeForest: It's important to realize that even in the face of cusps/bifurcations and random jumps, all is not lost on the connectivity front -- even if all we can get to is a stochastic summary of connectivity 01:16:51.190,01:16:54.190 William Matthaeus: how do I upload my agu talk? 01:17:22.682,01:17:25.682 Sarah Gibson: do you have a link? otherwise send to me and I can put on punch web and we can link to our presentations/pubs page on PUNCH 01:17:23.145,01:17:26.145 David Webb: Is anyone else having a problem getting to the PUNCH SWRI site? 01:17:29.116,01:17:32.116 Heather Elliott: You can send it and Sarah can load it wit the others. 01:17:46.445,01:17:49.445 Craig DeForest: Dave: it has been slow at times. IT are working on it. I'll check with my phone 01:17:53.731,01:17:56.731 Heather Elliott: I got this one to come up. https://punch.space.swri.edu 01:18:16.554,01:18:19.554 Craig DeForest: Seems to be loading okay through AT&T. 01:18:17.246,01:18:20.246 Sarah Gibson: Could others on the call try clicking on that link and let us know if it does not load? 01:18:36.617,01:18:39.617 Barbara Thompson: It's just you, Dave 01:18:42.954,01:18:45.954 Barbara Thompson: ;) 01:18:46.834,01:18:49.834 Heather Elliott: I was using safari. 01:18:49.763,01:18:52.763 Samantha Wallace: I could even present at a later time on uncertainty and limitations of PFSS models specifically. for now, Ill point you to da silva + 2023, section 3.1 https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2023SW003554 01:19:01.036,01:19:04.036 Craig DeForest: I'd like that. 01:19:27.358,01:19:30.358 William Matthaeus: here is a link https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6h85yuize9516n2tkg460/AGU2018-SH54A-02-Matthaeus-Region-of-Influence.pdf?rlkey=qkgpquor1ujbesr19i9b5xn9s&dl=0 01:19:28.303,01:19:31.303 Craig DeForest: PFSS in particular has no right to work at all given that it ignores MHD -- but it works very, very well -- well enough that we forget it has limits! 01:19:46.706,01:19:49.706 Nicki Viall: in situ are pretty accurate ;p 01:21:29.856,01:21:32.856 William Matthaeus: here is Rappazzo paper DOI link http://dx.doi.org/10.1088/2041-8205/758/1/L14 01:22:28.925,01:22:31.925 Barbara Thompson: Badman, Wallace, Van Kooten & Evangelia - we're harnessing the power of the Sams!! 01:22:39.491,01:22:42.491 Barbara Thompson: And Samaiyah!! 01:22:45.872,01:22:48.872 Samantha Wallace: <3 01:22:56.463,01:22:59.463 Samuel Badman: there were O(10) of us at SHINE last year! 01:23:00.474,01:23:03.474 Samantha Wallace: This is why I have a hard time going by just "Sam" haha 01:23:24.450,01:23:27.450 Evangelia Samara: hahaha so true !! 01:23:50.959,01:23:53.959 Barbara Thompson: Sams have a superpower to understand solar magnetic fields 01:24:00.127,01:24:03.127 William Matthaeus: thanks, Heather ! 01:24:22.160,01:24:25.160 Samuel Badman: will the chat with all these links be made shared? 01:24:24.840,01:24:27.840 Sarah Gibson: this recording + talks will be added to our web page pubs/presentation page 01:24:31.848,01:24:34.848 Sarah Gibson: I will figure out how best to share the chat 01:24:37.523,01:24:40.523 Samuel Badman: thanks for having us! 01:24:49.189,01:24:52.189 Samantha Wallace: yes this was great! Thanks! 01:24:51.239,01:24:54.239 Yeimy Rivera: This was great! Thanks! 01:25:14.690,01:25:17.690 Barbara Thompson: Join us for the PUNCH Solstice celebration!! 01:25:28.590,01:25:31.590 Heather Elliott: We are having open meetings and data. 01:25:36.320,01:25:39.320 Barbara Thompson: Thank you Heather!! 01:25:43.978,01:25:46.978 Heather Elliott: Thanks everyone!